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How much is spent on bitcoin mining?  

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Will H
(@will-h)
Active Member Customer

Would be interesting to know how much has been spent on bitcoin mining. This is an amount that could potentially go towards the Epistemic Standard Economy.

There's articles about investments from VC in the bitcoin space, but there isn't much about the numbers being spent on mining. Probably not easy to get a concrete number with the network hashrate changing, factoring in that a top miner would have a high price the previous year for less Gh/s compared to the next, and several other things to consider.

If we were to go by this article http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/07/15/bitcoin-infrastructure-may-grow-600m-second-half-2014/ (from last July) it costs $1.5 – $2 million to deploy 1 petahash.

At the current network speed of ~300 Ph/s that figure would be around $450 million. (300 x 1.5)

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Posted : 07/01/2015 9:17 am
wuffy68
(@wuffy68)
Member Moderator

I've heard "over $600 million per year on electricity and specialized equipment combined" recently quoted by the Etherium guys in this video. I figure they know their $&*t since they raised $18 Million and have a team of 30 working on the project. I have to say, I'm really starting to like these guys since they are not decentralization zealots (and they like real proof-of-work applications).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPsCGvXyrP4#t=694

They also mention bitcoin mining doesn't even scratch the surface compared to gold mining since many operations require clear-cutting forests, burning incredible amounts of fuel, and using caustic chemicals like cyanide and mercury in amalgamation and processing.

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Posted : 08/01/2015 4:34 am
ChristianVirtual
(@christianvirtual)
Eminent Member Customer

That open an interesting question about the overall impact of mining (and folding) on the ΓΆko-system. Based in that I think Bitcoin also, at least indirect, impact our environment.

Each GPU a or CPU generate waste. producing chips need to dig "rare earth" or even gold, producing chips by creating wafer, eventually motherboards, packaging ... Lots of steps until we plug in our fancy new GTX maxwll into a box.

Just thoughts ...

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Posted : 08/01/2015 3:41 pm
jrweiss
(@jrweiss)
Trusted Member Customer

EVERYTHING we do has an impact on our environment!

The only way we can "save the earth" by "reducing our carbon footprint" is to stop having babies and stop consuming "stuff"!

Of course, that would ruin the world economy, so it ain't gonna happen. We're doomed.

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Posted : 08/01/2015 5:53 pm
wuffy68
(@wuffy68)
Member Moderator

One of the Higher-Education projects Cygnux is involved with plans to use a warehouse converted to an Aquaponics farm growing algae and shrimp - heated by DCN equipment (including F@H w/ Curecoin - not sure what percentage). If the algae could be converted to bio-diesel (not yet sure if that's part of the plan), it would attempt to make the folding farm more carbon neutral.

There's also a Russian gentleman named Igor who's trying to Crowdfund a gigantic (1 million bird) Quail/egg farm - heated by DCN projects during the winter ... with the waste manure being converted into methane using a "BUG" digester to power generators to run the research/crunching equipment. Not sure how far he'll be able to get in Russia given the current political situation - and restrictions on crypto-currency ... but its certainly an elegant idea.

I put this video together (you have to view it on a PC browser to see the annotations not visible on mobile devices):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8AHfgmCwOo

It demonstrates a physical system using Renewable Wind Energy Credits, along with two Amazon EC2 instances for Cloud Folding. Instance A uses N.Virgina which heavily relies on nuclear power generation in that region while Instance B uses Oregon region, relying heavily on Hydro-Electric power.

So there are very creative ways in making this a ~carbon neutral endeavor. In fact, the future looks better than ever. What would be cool is if Curecoin (and others) would give bonuses based on lower power consumption, or proof of alternative energy utilization similar to solarcoin.

Now we're really talking "futuristic currency".

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Posted : 08/01/2015 10:13 pm
wuffy68
(@wuffy68)
Member Moderator

@wuffy68 wrote:

So there are very creative ways in making this a ~carbon neutral endeavor. In fact, the future looks better than ever.

... when human assisted climate change gives you lemons .... you make lemonade.

OK - that WAS kind of sad, but at least this study is an attempt at leveraging the impending disaster into something useful and clean - carbon-neutral data centers, and hydro power for the European sub-continent.

Joking aside, a real technology coming down the pipe - Lockheed Martin announced a commercially viable Compact Fusion Reactor available in 10 years .... now remember, this isn't a fly-by-night operation ... this is one of the largest defense contractors in the world making the claim:

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Posted : 09/01/2015 2:38 am
Will H
(@will-h)
Active Member Customer

Reminded me of this guy. It's unverified and most likely a hoax.
But there certainly seems to be somewhat of a race in commercializing fusion. Hopefully we will see this sooner rather than later.

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Posted : 09/01/2015 12:12 pm
wuffy68
(@wuffy68)
Member Moderator

Amazing if it works ... Something like this could also be set up to power large scale research projects or even purchase by DCN / Epistemic Currency participants similar to Renewable Energy Credits until it becomes more ubiquitous.

Rossi sold his patent to private Industrial Heat LLC (a Cherokee investment partners company) Now they might be using it to pump their stock price if they plan on going public with this division, but they say they are continuing with Rossi's plans to create domestic heat exchangers for the E-cat to easily retro-fit the LENR devices inside existing home HVAC systems,

http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/01/06/rossi-domestic-e-cats-still-a-priority-for-industrial-heat/

Lots of hocus pocus ... his device used powdered nickel and hydrogen gas to fuse the nickel into copper at just the right temperature and pressure. A "secret ingredient" was used, but never revealed to the public until now (appears to be lithium).

Rossi supposedly had a working 1MW plant set up in a 1/2 size shipping container before he sold the patent. He had an "undisclosed" military customer for it too.

Good stuff.

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Posted : 09/01/2015 2:20 pm
Will H
(@will-h)
Active Member Customer

@wuffy68 wrote:

They also mention bitcoin mining doesn't even scratch the surface compared to gold mining since many operations require clear-cutting forests, burning incredible amounts of fuel, and using caustic chemicals like cyanide and mercury in amalgamation and processing.

There's a good point to be made about gold mining. It's an action that adds no value, that process should actually make gold less desirable/valuable. Would people still want gold if they were fully aware of the effects and sacrifices made? Most of it goes towards jewelry and investments, it doesn't make sense other than to fulfill this fixation of shiny things. It's not exactly cool to want something that's environmentally unfriendly.

In contrast to Curecoin where the energy output is going towards scientific research. As long as the research is worth the energy output, it's adding value.

What's worth more? Shiny bling or hours of scientific research?

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Posted : 21/01/2015 12:11 pm
wuffy68
(@wuffy68)
Member Moderator

@Will H wrote:

@wuffy68 wrote:

What's worth more? Shiny bling or hours of scientific research?

I couldn't agree more - but then, you are preaching to the converted. Trying to explain this to someone from India or China makes it a much harder argument - if gold can buy a Rhino horn, who needs the scientific research!? πŸ˜›

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Posted : 29/01/2015 4:03 am
Will H
(@will-h)
Active Member Customer

Hehe, better not give people ideas. Somebody might come across this thread and before we know it there''ll be a Rhinocoin...just googled it now, there already is! Fortunately it's not backed by poaching in any way.

Seriously though, perceptions change (eventually). With the emerging and expanding numbers in smartphone users in the Asia Pacific region especially, more people are getting access to a number of things that weren't possible too long ago.
Along with the folding on mobile beta announcement, the day when contributing to scientific research and participating in a healthy financial system is a standard app on all devices seem closer.

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Posted : 29/01/2015 12:23 pm
wuffy68
(@wuffy68)
Member Moderator

@Will H wrote:

smartphone users in the Asia Pacific region especially

The smartphone factor is much bigger than we may be assuming. Pande wants 1M cores ... he just might get it with Android alone.

My estimates using a modern Sony Xperia Z3 with the Adreno 330 GPU component (166 GFLOPS) ... it would take less than 1 million phones to equal the computational output of the F@H network - and that's just while charging 8 hours/day!!!. With older Android phones it that number might go upwards of 6 million - but there are over 800 million Android phones in the world according to this article. The implications are staggering.

I know you can already run BOINC projects on Android - but I'm not sure if that meshes with gridcoin at all. Let me know if you come up with anything different for numbers.

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Posted : 29/01/2015 11:54 pm
Will H
(@will-h)
Active Member Customer

That's astonishing! Those numbers will only get better as the tech gets better. (In a few years a high-end mobile device will probably be more powerful than the average laptop today)

It also says something about how important it is to focus on mobile. I've read several articles about how mobile have surpassed PC when it comes to browsing the internet. That gap will only increase when there's over 500 thousand new Android devices being activated every day. Like you said, there's certainly some potential even if a small percentage decides to put it towards computational research.

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Posted : 31/01/2015 9:26 am
wuffy68
(@wuffy68)
Member Moderator

@Will H wrote:

there's certainly some potential even if a small percentage decides to put it towards computational research.

What I like about the mobile aspect too is that the developing world can participate in large numbers - keeping the network free from mining consolidation and monopolization (lofty dream :-).

My vision for Curecoin (when the value rises) is to dedicate a "subsidy wallet" to help pay for charging station costs in places like Sub-Saharan Africa, or Dalit provinces in Northern and Eastern India to keep people participating in those places as well - people could use Curecoin alongside M-Pesa (or replace them entirely if those service didn't find value in CURE).

Charging costs are through the roof in those places - and what better way to power mobile devices doing computational research than using fuel-cell chargers powered by ethanol derived from corn using enzymes discovered by F@H's Snow Lab 8)

Even before that, the subsidy could help attract lower income Folders in first world (that's where the retail coupon idea fits in). I think I might have a publicly available concept video on that idea this weekend if Cyg approves it - otherwise I'll try to share it off-line to those interested.

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Posted : 31/01/2015 11:57 am
Will H
(@will-h)
Active Member Customer

That is a wonderful idea!

It would be great to see exchanges among those who eventually contribute to such a wallet. An exchange could for example donate a small % of their profits that derived from CC trading. Good PR for the exchange, and an extra incentive to use that exchange for people who want to trade their CC.

If all businesses decide to do the same when they start to accept or use CC this could snowball into something great. Potentially a "subsidy wallet" that pays for itself from POS.

It also adds another layer of "goodness" to CC. The protocol itself is already good, what we decide to do with it can make it even better.

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Posted : 01/02/2015 10:14 am
jesica1
(@jesica1)
New Member Customer

That's a really good idea ever.. πŸ˜€

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Posted : 20/04/2017 1:11 am
ryoungblood
(@ryoungblood)
Active Member Customer

What do you mean?

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Posted : 20/04/2017 11:02 am
wuffy68
(@wuffy68)
Member Moderator

@ryoungblood wrote:

What do you mean?

I think jesica1 is talking about funding the charging stations in developing countries in exchange for people running the folding client on their smartphones...

It would be great if F@h actually added the original (legacy) points system to the phone client so points could be tracked more easily - although we've talked about giving incentives in CURE based on the badges which the mobile client awards.

Time and funding πŸ˜€

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Posted : 22/04/2017 5:51 am
Bilkymesk
(@bilkymesk)
New Member Customer

You can try cloud mining instead of buying, so you don't have to pay. I just found a calculator on the web comparing different cloud mining sites. It is http://cloudminingcalculator.online/?u=v, hope it helps. Or, what do you think if this cloud mining calculator is accurate?

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Posted : 12/02/2018 10:37 pm
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